examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. Pasted as rich text. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? For you lower swing speed players, go to blades with weaker lofts or better yet go to an old vintage blades with the pitching wedge 52 degrees, and you can hit the ball farther hehe. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Thanks for everybody for your help! 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). All rights reserved. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. PING Anser 4 Hybrid And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Hybrid: Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0, 2 iron: Mizuno MP-20 HMB, Steelfiber i95 S, 39.5", Irons grab bag: 1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 3-AW Pinhawk Vertex irons, Apollo std stepped S Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? One good example comes to mind. 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Its like that distance is just not filled. Having spent a lot of his childhood in Hawaii and now on a course that will reward his best asset, Grant can justify this snippet from a recent interview: Fortunately for me, I grew up in the wind.. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Bravo, As a club fitter who deals with players that purchase equipment based on what their ego tells them they need verses the facts this is a breath of fresh air! IG: golfer_scott While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? Display as a link instead, Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? I think that makes a difference. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. This is even less a personal thing than the grip with very little variation, there is a single way to set up to a golf ball to help a good golf swing happen. Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. Sounds like it's a long iron. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X **. St Louis, MO. I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. To do this I will need to bend the 6 iron - PW 1 degree stronger. Some get more spin, some less. After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? Lofts don't always come in 4-degree increments. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. Add loft for distance?????? Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. By adding loft, those golfers achieve more ideal launch conditions, which means they carry shots farther and stop the ball faster on the green. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! Best of luck.Chuck. I know its different for each golfer depending on their individual characteristics but do you have rough numbers (for iron set) to be looking for in terms of launch angle, spin rate etc. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. You cannot paste images directly. You won't notice it. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Bomb and gouge. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. Great article. Lots of good comments here. JavaScript is disabled. on tight fairways. Good question. Sign up to receive product offers and news! I can't say that they have kicked my 716 ap2 out for good, but for now the 716 cb are staying in the bag! If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. You cannot paste images directly. Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. 4-6 more yards (depending on club and swing speed) and lower launch with less bounce. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? Undershooter So I changed my swing to compress the ball better instead, and just took extra club and swing easy. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. A good tune-up is a good tune-up regardless of the final loft gaps. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Pros and cons? Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. You must log in or register to reply here. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. It, In any case one can't really compare clubs anymore with respect to asking what someone hit. Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. Terms & Conditions But what about the mid and low irons, yes I understand some companies make 6/7 hybrids (7 and up is very rare), but you can not really replace an 8 iron with a true hybrid. What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. However, even a degree difference can affect the direction where the ball might start out and can be the difference between you hitting the green, and you landing in a bunker! Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. Can you bend a metal wood? The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. Sounds like it's a long iron. Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! ** Due to coronavirus and the work restrictions in place here in Michigan, for international orders, please email [email protected] for a complete quote. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* Couldn't agree more with your entire post. Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. Upload or insert images from URL. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. Your link has been automatically embedded. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. By Greyson P. I just purchase a great used 712 AP2 set. Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. You can post now and register later. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. I was a little worried I might notice the offset or have trouble with hitting them fat, but they look perfect and play like they should. Clear editor. Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. Generally though as you decrease theloft of a club by one degree, you reduce its bounce a degree at the same time and if you increase the loft by one degree you increase the bounce by a degree. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. I have mine bent 2 degrees strong and cannot see any visible difference. Display as a link instead, Feb 3, 2013. Upload or insert images from URL. Everyone's comments are super helpful! On a driver? So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. What to consider when bending golf clubs. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. 1001 Industrial Blvd If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? Seriously. All rights reserved. That is a two club difference. Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. Hi! ENTER NOW! Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). 5 Testers Needed! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. What the heck are they were talking about? In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. United States. My old callway x forged dug more than my bent mp-4's. A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. Learn how your comment data is processed. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. make it a "digger" per say? The speed of putts is crucial. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By FAQs IG: golfer_scott Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. It would increase if you added loft. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. You cannot paste images directly. Required fields are marked *. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ I've bent tons of clubs. there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. If anything I am a digger in the golf swing. Product Instructions & Manuals If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. Reset Password 5 Testers Needed! The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. The two things are diametrically opposed in meaning of course. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. The fact remains that only stronger, faster swings can support lower lofts. :-). (I ran into this today.) High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid Thanks everybody for the help! Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW.